Do not sell list discussion

[belthize]

Jan 9, 2009 18:54:04 GMT -5 Recneps said:

Please list the name/s you would like added to the DNS list and the reason why in a reply to this thread. They will be compiled and updated as time allows.

In most cases only individual players should be listed but clans are acceptable if justified.

We would like to request that DFA members take this list to heart, print it out and make a attempt to abide by it. The more compliance we have the more effective it becomes.

GUIDLINES: Do not list someone who happened to wander across you and murder you in the woods or people in a battle that you got swept up in.

This list is for the REAL bad guys out there. Repeat stalkers/gankers, griefers and worst of all scammers!

Recneps

I figured I'd start a discussion thread rather than muddy up the list thread since it really ought to be limited to just additions.

My personal goal will be to never ever add somebody to that list.
This entire sub forum is dedicated to discussion of methods to *avoid* getting ganked/scammed and otherwise kicked to the curb.

DF promises to be a fairly brutal world, I strongly recommend folks look hard at any time they feel they were mistreated and see how they can improve their game so as not to be a target rather than immediately post names.

Obviously there will be the general asshat out there but avoiding the problem in the first place will help to make sure the list is focused and not 10,000 names long, thus greatly improving it's effectiveness.

Screw you once, welcome to DF.
Screw you twice, yep still DF.
Screw you 3 times, shame on you.
Screw you 10 times well ... ok he's probably a board candidate.

Thorsen Belthize
ps: A little forethought and a healthy dose of distrust should pretty much eliminate scammers. If you're trusting you're going to get scammed, count on it.

[dropbear]

yes, dns lists can be tricky, it's reliant on a large % in the persons maturity levels..

[Recneps]

Jan 9, 2009 19:25:37 GMT -5 belthize said:

Screw you once, welcome to DF.
Screw you twice, yep still DF.
Screw you 3 times, shame on you.
Screw you 10 times well ... ok he's probably a board candidate.

That's a perfect way to sum it up! Plus it would make a d**n good t-shirt

[Si'aan Anoura]

Jan 9, 2009 19:31:49 GMT -5 dropbear said:

yes, dns lists can be tricky, it's reliant on a large % in the persons maturity levels..

...And should probably also be reliant on more than one opinion. If you're ganked 10+ times, it is likely that some other poor sucker has also suffered a similar fate. I mean, you shouldn't have to get ganked/corpse camped repeatedly to know they're a griefer - if it's happened to you a few times, and s/he's done it to 3 or 4 other people you know, s/he's probably a worthy candidate then too.

Not discrediting Thorsen's statement, but just saying that the DNS list should be used with both maturity AND some research into who you're adding to that list. If that person is a part of a clan you could contact the clan and let them know that they have a member who is a serious griefer - if their clan isn't into that, then you could really burn them by adding them to a DNS list AND getting them booted from their clan? (I mean, you don't have to, but I'm a spiteful person - sometimes the feather really is sharper than the sword! ) I mean, you don't HAVE to do this, but you can get your own back sometimes too!

Back to the point, moral of the story: treat the DNS board with maturity, common-sense, and based on a well-thought-out judgement!

(God, you're all going to get sick of hearing my two cents!) haha

Edit: Grammar error - made it confusing!

[dropbear]

most clans wont care an will in fact find it "cool" provoking them to higher levels of grief. Thats just how it works.

[weatherford]

As much as I want to believe in the DNS list... I know that there will be black market sales made to those people or groups behind everyone's back.

[Isse-Istar]

Jan 10, 2009 19:03:41 GMT -5 weatherford said:

As much as I want to believe in the DNS list... I know that there will be black market sales made to those people or groups behind everyone's back.

I absolutely agree. I think that black market trade within this community should be also strongly controlled.

For example, two clans are at war, let's say one of them is a merchant clan with an army from DMA, called X. The other is just some other random clan Y (on DNS due to war with clan X). Let's say there is a third clan, another merchant clan, clan Z. What if the said clan Z is supplying clan Y? That would definitely be black market trade within the community! And the clan Y will be likely to pay well, so do merchant clans pass up on opportunity?

I am sure there has to be some form of control so that the clans don't subtly damage each other through ignoring the DNS and don't actually ignore the said DNS in general.

Archmage Isse-Istar.

[Si'aan Anoura]

But how does the DMA control them? That is the hard question. I mean, you can't ever control black-market stuff, that's why it's the black market!

The only way the DMA would be able to enforce things is if it has enough membership to be able to throw its weight behind a decision and enough members would be willing to support that. Its like the UN and international law. The UN can say whatever it wants, but if noone follows it, or noone is willing to stand up to those who oppose it, then it wields no authority - we're in the same boat.

Lady S.

[belthize]

Jan 11, 2009 4:34:58 GMT -5 Isse-Istar said:

I absolutely agree. I think that black market trade within this community should be also strongly controlled.

For example, two clans are at war, let's say one of them is a merchant clan with an army from DMA, called X.

Isse-Istar I think you're fundamentally missing the point of DMA. DMA shouldn't control anything other than forum behavior.

Any crafter regardless of allegiance is welcome to DMA. It's possible a crafter could be in an RPK clan who is entirely on the DNS sell list because one of their precepts is 'kill every crafter not in our clan'. He's welcome here and everyone should stay off his case and he should stay of everyone else's case while he's here.

Now if that crafter came to DMA and was a general 'haha we ganked you l00zers' type asshat ... well I'm guessing he'll be shown the door.

That's an extreme example but I wanted to make the point.

The DNS stands as a 'warning' not a rule. Maybe it should be the 'Look out don't get whacked' list.

If your merc clan or any other clan wants to make an alliance with rules that's perfectly permissible. The "Clan Discussion" area would be the appropriate place. Consider it the large smokey back room in the Tavern.

At such point that an Alliance was made the appropriate thing would be to:
1) Simply advertise it's existence. I assume some day soon'ish there'll be a sticky post listing crafting clans and crafting unions/alliances
2) Carry further discussion on at some other Alliance hosted website.

The DMA is a discussion/breeding ground forum for ideas and groups to meet. It can't be the de facto home of an alliance/clan/union and remain neutral. Once there are thousands of members it'll be hard enough to moderate.

Thorsen Belthize
ps: I don't speak for Recneps, it's his board and I may be butt wrong but I think he's made this relatively clear in the top 'What is DMA' post: www.darkfallmerchant.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=what&action=display&thread=21

pps: I don't necessarily disagree with your views on an alliance, once the games out and things become clearer I will likely be interested, I just disagree with DMA's roll in said alliance.

[Isse-Istar]

Jan 11, 2009 8:11:05 GMT -5 belthize said:

Isse-Istar I think you're fundamentally missing the point of DMA. DMA shouldn't control anything other than forum behavior.

Hmm, well sorry then. I think that that is a dangerous venture then, but nevertheless am willing to offer my troops to strengthen it.

Archmage Isse-Istar.

[Skiodra (doctorm119)]

I think we all have different views on how the DMA should work. My main idea was to create a clan or at least very structured group with leadership that could control trade. If you were to have 100 crafters involved you would easily be able to control trade because they could all work together. That could even be something separate from the DMA. But I digress, I think the DNS list should be a "rule" because it can help enforce better treatment to crafters and merchants.

[eljayco]

I expect most crafters will work with 2 lists, their own DNS list containing individuals they meet who kill them once and then they will also have the list here they can refer to.

I'm hoping ingame you can use inore lists and maybe have notes on it so you could type a reason why you have ignored them and use that as your ingame DNS list.

Personally I am thinking of asking everyone who kills me for a good reason (uness I got caught in a crossfire) and if they can provide one I won't stick them on my list but if not then on they go.

If they repeatedly do so then I will post their details here.

I am planning on not giving away my skills to those who I encounter, I am just a crafter with hopes of making a name for myself. If all goes well then those who kill me and who want to buy off me wil have to shop somewhere else.

[Si'aan Anoura]

I think there are lots of good points in this thread. I think that most of this Associations members already have different aspirations to one another, different things they want to DMA to become, and different roles they see themselves playing in it - and I think THAT is what can make this work. Debate in these matters are really useful for finding the best outcomes. I don't think there is one 'right way' we should be organised here, but rather that we'll keep changing and evolving. And I think it would be great for some 'shifty alliance meddling' to go on in the, as Thorsen says, 'back room of the tavern'. This is the place to do it too - its just hard for the whole Association to get behind a specific cause or to form a set allegiance... Yet, we will see how this melting pot works after the 22nd!

As for the DNS list (and the main point of this thread), only some of us will be able to 'enforce' it, and if clans who are members here want to go around enforcing this list, then by all means - I won't stop you, and I'm sure a lot of crafters wont either! It is there to serve as a warning to other crafters, but members are welcome, especially if they have military support, or especially if they control a city and are welcoming in merchants to set up shop, to enforce this list as they see fit. Though for those of us who are individuals, we will note those on the list and do our best either to avoid them or to KoS the bastards! hehehe

Lady S.

[Ashka]

I am curious whether there are any intentions to add botters and exploiters to the DNS?

I'm not sure whether Darkfall's mechanics will even allow for such cheap tricks, but in the event it does, I would fully support rejecting such of individuals from the DMA community. Crafting bots and item duplicate exploits completely ruined the economy of the PvP server I played on in Vanguard - and I plan to do whatever I can to keep the same from happening in Darkfall.

[Si'aan Anoura]

Jan 14, 2009 23:11:51 GMT -5 Ashka said:

I am curious whether there are any intentions to add botters and exploiters to the DNS?

I'm not sure whether Darkfall's mechanics will even allow for such cheap tricks, but in the event it does, I would fully support rejecting such of individuals from the DMA community. Crafting bots and item duplicate exploits completely ruined the economy of the PvP server I played on in Vanguard - and I plan to do whatever I can to keep the same from happening in Darkfall.

Along with Goldfarmers as well? I think that is a fair call, Lady Ashka, as anyone who works towards ruining the economy (at least via trickery or cheating) should be perceived as being as bad for trade as griefers.

I second your views.