Crafting saftey

[dropbear]

Safety in these games is something you have to really learn I think. Trust is in short supply as far as I am concerned, an I rarely trust anyone outside a small group of friends. This way you become sort of "hair trigger" ready for when you do get ripped off, an can compensate for it.(to an extent)

Personally I never trade outside "town" nor do I ever meet people somewhere because it's easier for them.
If anyone wants something from me then they come to me, I never! go to them. To do so, is inviting death an all your gear stolen.

There is a really good chance 90% of people you run into in these games will try an take everything you have, so you need to understand that an take as many precautions as possible

my biggest things int hese games are.

1.Dont trust anyone
2.Never travel to supply someone an item(they ALWAYS come to you)
3.EVERYONE is out to kill you until you know better
4.Only craft at the bank or as close to it as possible, this way you never have much on you that you cant use directly for the job your doing.
5.....Well, there is no 5 hehe that I can think of. Obviously these are nothing but logical thinking but they still help.

[Recneps]

I think number one is what you mentioned about "meeting" someone. Uh Uh. . . They can come to me. And it will be in the safest place possible (towns, cities etc.)

Alot depends on the availability of in game NPC's and other safe trade systems. I do intend to perform some gathering myself but hopefully it will be in a group of TRUSTED people with the same intention. Of course, simple common sense goes a long way. (Like not carrying everything you own around with you if you can bank it somewhere safe)

I do also plan to have some combat skills for self defense and farming of mobs and while I more than likely won't win often against a combat geared character, I'll sure as hell put up a fight. . . . Again. . . . Hopefully with a group of other crafters at my back

Recneps

[dropbear]

I was hoping we would have NPC guards, but I believe they were removed as"unworkable" so crafters are left to do it themselves. I didn't want to have combat abilities, but it maybe a case of having too. As yet we just don't know enough as yet.

I would say Crafters in DF will be akin to Rogues back in the early days of World of Warcraft, primary target's.So being a "pure" crafter will be something of an impossibility unless you're in a clan an have Minders with you at all times.

I am looking forward to being a "carebear" for a change, since I used to be something of a "nasty type" for some years as a griefer, after realizing just how stupid the metality is, Crafting is a really nice change. Definatly a step up the food chain heh

[Recneps]

An interesting thought is that early on, if you go about with some sort of armor and weapons, you won't be identified automatically as a crafter.

Being seen farming materials in the wild will be a pretty big tip-off. Even if you're not seen as a "crafter" you will make a juicy target. I imagine that a good portion of people will have some type of crafting skill so even being seen at the forge (workbench, ovens or whatever else is in game) wouldn't be a immediate tip-off.

The real problem will come once you've established a known name as a crafter. Of course then it could go both ways. While you may have a few sympathetic members of the populace willing to come to your aid and possibly some type of "structured" backing via a crafters group. . . . You also walk around with a bigger dollar sign over your head.

Perhaps the early advantage of anonymity will last long enough to gain a foothold and develop some meaningful arrangements.

Recneps

[Skiodra (doctorm119)]

I'm hoping that most players will be the smart/honorable type who know that a good reliable crafter is hard to come by and would rather help defend you if you need help. Of course this puts a lot of trust in people being good inside.

[dropbear]

well, speaking as an ex elitist.... I would have to say msot people will just see you as an easy target, they wont care about you being a crafter as such. More someone they know has less fighting skills.

[belthize]

DF really is set up well to help protect crafters for a FFA full loot type game.

You can 'appear' just about however you want. The cost for
knowing how to wear some armor and a sword are very low.

With 40-50K subs even the most famous crafters will only be known
to a small percentage of the world.

Dieing and being looted as a crafter will be less costly than as a
combat type. A combat type will lose all his armor/weapons and
loot. A crafter will only lose the mats and gold required for
whatever he was about to make (could be multiple items). You
may die more often (likely less though) but each death is less
expensive.

That said common sense will pay. Don't trust anyone, do trades in
safe areas and try to limit your loss when you die because you will.

Mercs really can be useful either as protection up front or as
payback. Anyone who gets out of paying me by killing me will
repay me in the end (unless I decide I was being butt stupid and
asking for it).

Thorsen Belthize

[dropbear]

yes I agree, payback revenge for me is a 1100% must. I will pay(by crafting free or cash) for a mass murder sessions on the those who rip me off. (trouble with Merc's is the ones that can be trusted v the guys who will take your cash an then try an kill you anyway. It will be trial an error there.

[tyorl]

As far as I understand the game, crafting could be done in "safe" places as cities as well as trades could be performed there. The main danger will be to gather materails for crafting when we will be in the open and an easy prey for Pvpers. But what we will loose will only be the materials we just gathered

[ryahask]

Something a number of people here seem to be forgetting is connections to specific Clans, nations, or Alliances. Though you might not be a member of a specific Clan this doesn't mean you won't be granted protection by them.

I personally intend to adopt a few trusted and proven crafters to sell to the Raven Rose Pack, and as as we're a Clan the demand will be rather high so there won't be a loss of work, additionally even if you aren't part of a Clan if my source for weaponry is attacked there's no way I don't respond. Crafters are Clanmates by extension, as they're utterly necessary to survive.

If we have the resources and the land I actually might consider making a small haven for crafters in a small village near our main City. Give exclusive rights to those we frequently deal with and allow them to harvest there in exchange for a reduced price with them.

[belthize]

Jan 7, 2009 8:11:13 GMT -5 ryahask said:

Something a number of people here seem to be forgetting is connections to specific Clans, nations, or Alliances. Though you might not be a member of a specific Clan this doesn't mean you won't be granted protection by them.

I'm counting on that. The sooner you get out of the NPC cities the better. I'm already lining up multiple clans so I have some freedom of movement. If it's just one clan you'd almost be better off being a member to that clan (depends on their rules).

Glad to save Raven Rose is open to that, I think a lot of people have the mistaken impression that H/M/D = nice to crafters and O/M = griefer central rather than just a racial preference.

The Alfar or O/M side of the fence is likely to be more belligerently protective of their crafters and more aggressively target the H/M/D ones.

Thorsen Belthize

[Si'aan Anoura]

Jan 7, 2009 8:47:35 GMT -5 belthize said:

Glad to save Raven Rose is open to that, I think a lot of people have the mistaken impression that H/M/D = nice to crafters and O/M = griefer central rather than just a racial preference.

The Alfar or O/M side of the fence is likely to be more belligerently protective of their crafters and more aggressively target the H/M/D ones.

Though in order for a merchants union to be truly successful, it will have to think beyond H/M/D and O/M racial boundaries. This isn't to say that clans involved in the Union can't be racially aligned, but that merchants should be prepared to deal with all races. For two reasons:

1. This is the way to make the most money, and to control the flow of money and resources (ultimately and idealistically).
2. It will offer protection from all races.

I mean, I plan on playing a Mirdain and as a mercenary. I have no problems for working for any race against any PKing of crafters. I will take an alignment hit if I am being paid to protect an Alfar.

Also, to address some of the other posts on this thread, as the Union gets more warrior-focused/city-taking clans involved (such as Raven Rose Pack (I know I have REALLY summarised you there, but I know these are both things you intend to do amongst others)), there will be greater opportunity for one or more merchant clans to work safely within neutral/clan-controlled cities, and to have exclusive access to particular resources.

Perhaps Recnep, we could make a section clans to post their RP (more than just the thread I started), their racial status, their primary objectives, state either their clan leader, or who members should contact if they are seeking a contract or agreement with that clan? I know its hard for much to be in concrete pre-release, but its not long now - may as well get this ball rolling eh?

Lady Si'aan Anoura.

[eljayco]

Jan 3, 2009 18:38:03 GMT -5 dropbear said:

4.Only craft at the bank or as close to it as possible, this way you never have much on you that you cant use directly for the job your doing.

From one of the videos I saw it seemed to suggest that crafting is done at things like forges, ovens etc.

[Si'aan Anoura]

Jan 11, 2009 17:20:30 GMT -5 eljayco said:

Jan 3, 2009 18:38:03 GMT -5 dropbear said:

4.Only craft at the bank or as close to it as possible, this way you never have much on you that you cant use directly for the job your doing.

From one of the videos I saw it seemed to suggest that crafting is done at things like forges, ovens etc.

Yes, most of the debate on Forumfail seems to suggest that too! Crafters can best hope that there are forges etc within the main cities. Over time, I am sure that clan-controlled cities will be able to build them within the city too, or at least within their protected area. And I would imagine they would be trying to protect their crafters and main sources of income!

[crossbow]

Safety: As solo, will be difficult to be solo and safe. Not to mention, you will either have to buy supplies or gather yourself, sell product, and travel to sale; all are not safe activities.

To become a high crafter, i believe some of these tasks will have to be transfered to others. This is why i am in a clan which shares. PVP people forage, provide gold from monsters and i get to do what i want which is craft. Frees up much needed time to become a premier crafter.

DF has a good craft system, but is built for pvp. Most players need us which puts us in a desirable positions. At least my clan understands this.