|
Post by Si'aan Anoura on Jan 10, 2009 14:05:33 GMT -5
Free-market liberals vs protectionists is all I see going on here I think it all depends. It will depend (sorry Recneps) on how the forum is physically structured. It has the capability of directing the flow of what different members and users do. In that way, it is a type of leadership, but it is a very withdrawn one. By creating the right channels in the forum, you can, to an extent, limit the need for certain policies and rules as such. Some moderation has to occur as to not have clans flaming each other (unless we want to have a section where that is acceptable?) I am all for 'unspoken' and custom rules, and we, as early members, have the ability to start those. Perhaps we can all suggest, at this stage, how we feel the forum should work/look/be accessed, and PM Recneps. He has the control over the forum-style, and at least until game launch when the real politics start, he can structure how this Association will work. I don't want the DMA to become a clan as such, but a way of creating cooperation that promotes the role of crafting and gathering, and the selling of their wares. It should promote the physical security of merchants (through mercenaries and naval clans) and to provide greater resource access and economic security (through territorial and city-building clans). I see it this way, as a mercenary, because I see this as being a very viable market for me in-game. Lady S.
|
|
Isse-Istar
Junior Member
Archmage of Sanguis Argentum (EU merc clan)
Posts: 50
|
Post by Isse-Istar on Jan 10, 2009 14:15:04 GMT -5
I don't understand how cities would protect one's economic condition. I mean one can get scammed within the city walls just as bad as outside of them. We need some system which will assess the fairness of in-game trade, I think.
Well, could you also please clarify one thing for me? Will this stay only in terms of forum trade or will the DMA extend itself into transactions that happen in the game?
|
|
belthize
Junior Member
Independent Mercian Crafter
Posts: 58
|
Post by belthize on Jan 11, 2009 8:26:05 GMT -5
I don't understand how cities would protect one's economic condition. I mean one can get scammed within the city walls just as bad as outside of them. We need some system which will assess the fairness of in-game trade, I think. Well, could you also please clarify one thing for me? Will this stay only in terms of forum trade or will the DMA extend itself into transactions that happen in the game? I suspect DMA will only be involved as a 'looking for X'/'selling X' type trade board. Whether it even does that is a function of how trade boards work in game. If they're a straight up auction house I suspect it'll be useful. Auction houses aren't good for picky buyers or RP'ers. I personally prefer direct sales. Every hour an object is on an auction house it's money not making money (plus they're lame but that's just my opinion). If they're a straight up trade board in game then I doubt DMA would have much of that since the game already does it. Unless trade boards are local only in which case it might again. I know some crafters will create cgi interfaces that allow buyers/harvesters/themselves to go to a website and automatically see what that crafter(s) need and have. It's happened in almost every game. I have no clue whether Recneps would be interested, I kind of doubt it since those type of interfaces only scale to 5-10 people and are a pain to administer. There could be thousands here eventually (VGcrafters had 10K+ active members in it's heyday). Thorsen Belthize
|
|
belthize
Junior Member
Independent Mercian Crafter
Posts: 58
|
Post by belthize on Jan 11, 2009 8:33:27 GMT -5
Free-market liberals vs protectionists is all I see going on here Nope, free market vs protectionist is an economic theory. This is forum board theory. There will be DMA members here who are free-market, some will be protectionist and all variations in between. DMA is independent of that, both types are welcome. And that's the crux of it right there. It has the capability to. As Recneps has stated in the 'What is DMA' thread he doesn't intend to exercise that capability. DMA will be independent of any trade/alliance/clan structures. Thorsen Belthize <I don't speak for Recneps, it's his board. This is my opinion only>
|
|
Isse-Istar
Junior Member
Archmage of Sanguis Argentum (EU merc clan)
Posts: 50
|
Post by Isse-Istar on Jan 11, 2009 13:35:33 GMT -5
That would mean we would need to make two separate forums. One will have to have structure and organization for protectionists and the other would be just an online auction.
Archmage Isse-Istar.
|
|
|
Post by Si'aan Anoura on Jan 11, 2009 17:00:27 GMT -5
I think Thorsen is right in that it will be largely a 'selling X/looking for Y' sort of site, though I would also hope that contracts can be formed, not just sales. And by that I mean that members can strike up larger deals, or a regular business channel - a sort of "we control resource A, and we will allow you access to it if you make our clan X number of J armour" type of thing. I think when this starts to happen, then the DMA will start to gain some authority, not in a physical way, but to draw people together as an efficient way of brokering deals - and I can't see in-game trade boards being capable of larger contractual deals.
I think there may be some need behind what Isse-Istar says too - in that, maybe there should be a section for those who want something more structured, where they can nut out more complex arrangements to do so, while another area is more open for free-trade agreements? I'm sure that more members will come who want to plan some more rigid trade pacts. What do you think??
|
|
belthize
Junior Member
Independent Mercian Crafter
Posts: 58
|
Post by belthize on Jan 11, 2009 17:25:11 GMT -5
I think there may be some need behind what Isse-Istar says too - in that, maybe there should be a section for those who want something more structured, where they can nut out more complex arrangements to do so, while another area is more open for free-trade agreements? I'm sure that more members will come who want to plan some more rigid trade pacts. What do you think?? I agree and I think that's what the 'Clan Discussion' forum is for. The discussion of creating clans/unions/alliances. Presumably if a discussion there spins off a clan/union/alliance they'd want their own forum for privacy. Whether they'd have to form their own or Recneps wants to create private subforums I have no clue. I'm not at all adverse to entering into alliance discussions or joining one if it seems beneficial to me. I was only ever saying DMA can't be part of it (other than creating a gathering place) or it limits the number of possible unions/alliances to one. The first one. We need a breeding ground for numerous clans/unions/alliances so the cream can rise to the top, in addition some folks might want a H/M/D only alliance, or a Alfar only, or RP only, or a ship building cartel, etc. DMA pretty much enables that exactly as is. Thorsen Belthize
|
|
|
Post by Recneps on Jan 11, 2009 19:48:21 GMT -5
I just wanted to chime in and let everyone know that I'm not ignoring the discussions about this. I'm reading and considering all opinions and input. I have no interest in "Running" a clan or guild. I'm not dead set against joining one once I see how the game is set up however. There are a number of capable people that I've corresponded with that have the drive, vision and time to make a merchant clan a reality. I sincerely hope they take it and run with it and I look forward to the day when they want a private forum set up for their new clan. Setting up the DMA forum was simply a means to a end for allowing the open discussion of clan formation and providing a central contact point for them. It doesn't rule out a far stretching trade alliance either, it may just be formed as a separate body than the DMA. In order for the forum to be usable for all races, clans and players. . . . The current set-up is the easiest to maintain without the HUGE amount of headaches that would come from a more structured alliance. Recneps
|
|
Isse-Istar
Junior Member
Archmage of Sanguis Argentum (EU merc clan)
Posts: 50
|
Post by Isse-Istar on Jan 12, 2009 10:17:05 GMT -5
Master Belthize has graciously explained to me the way of this organization more clearly. Now I think I might withdraw my input on this back, since it seems I put my ideas in a bit of a wrong place. I still believe that it would be good for this place to be protectionist but if it is to stay out of markets of clans I absolutely agree with master Belthize.
Nevertheless I think that there should be at least a special section of the forum which should be set up so as to correspond to the needs of those (most likely solo) merchants who want some protectionism input. If that could be arranged it would be great! Archmage Isse-Istar.
|
|
|
Post by Si'aan Anoura on Jan 12, 2009 14:25:49 GMT -5
Well as Belthize has said, Isse-Istar, I think the Association will be quite broad, and that we should keep it quite open. I think there will be those who want very loose affiliations here and those that want more concrete results with set limits etc. It can accommodate both, and will be able to as mroe members wanting both things arrive. I wouldn't want to see you withdraw any of your ideas - this is a discussion and a melting pot of ideas, and at least until the game is launched, thats all it really can be! At least by expressing what you want to get out of the DMA, others who join can read your stand point on it and may find they feel the same. I hope the DMA always leaves people open to express their opinions!
|
|
Isse-Istar
Junior Member
Archmage of Sanguis Argentum (EU merc clan)
Posts: 50
|
Post by Isse-Istar on Jan 13, 2009 9:38:44 GMT -5
Lady Si'aan,
Thank you for these supportive words, yet I did not intend to make it sound like I neccessarily withdraw my ideas, sorry for confusion. I just have had my ideas modified due to a proper explanation given by master Belthize. My ideas certainly may stand if they are useful.
I certainly suppose that there will be people looking for guidance and protection. Do you suppose that full members will be more likely to seek more control exercised over them in general? I am saying this, since we could possibly tie in full membership with one of the two different policies.
Archmage Isse-Istar.
|
|
|
Post by Si'aan Anoura on Jan 13, 2009 14:48:12 GMT -5
It is a possibility. Though I am always hesitant about too much by the way of concrete commitments before the game has released, for fear that it may make certain aspects redundant on-release. Though it is definitely a possibility - assuming 'guidance and control' has a way of being well-implemented and regulated. I think though we will find more 'leagues' and the like being formed within the DMA and they will fill that niche. IMO.
Lady S.
|
|